Balanced Embouchure

[LFRoberts5]

For the Come Back Player this is a GREAT Method.

www.trumpetteacher.net

[dizforprez]

There are better ways than that.

[Hornucopia]

Lloyd, Diz, ya gotta give me more than that!

Lloyd, what are the advantages of BE?
Diz, what do recommend instead?

Inquring minds want to know!

[dizforprez]

First off I have not read the book, and the only information I had to form my opinion is taken from his website.

I feel that any book that preaches a “new method” is something to be wary of, especially if that new method focuses heavily on the embouchure. The embouchure is one of the systems evolved in trumpet playing that takes the least amount of thought and effort. The embouchure can be fussy but only if something else in the body is not working, as it should, if you are doing the right things with air and playing as relaxed as possible, the embouchure will start working on its own. From there out it just takes time.


In general from looking over the website I see nothing that strikes me as important information, and certainly nothing I would use in my own practice. From what I read I believe that Jeff Smiley himself doesn’t have a deep understanding or knowledge of what it takes to play the trumpet. To often players resort to Methods such as Caruso or BE and follow them with a religious fervor that they lacked in their study of Clarke and Arban’s. They then in turn see progress and think that the past method was flawed, while it was their work that was the problem.

Don’t try to reinvent the wheel; it is much easier to learn from the past than to figure it out on your own. To paraphrase Arnold Jacobs:

Everything our teachers learned in a lifetime we can learn in 3 years, and we teach our students everything from both our teachers and ourselves in 3 years.


For a comeback player I think something such as the ‘Chicago School’ would be much more appropriate. Focus on music and on having a good time. Do an hour of Clarke as your first sessions and I promise you that you will not have “chop” problems. There are no "short cuts"!

[Thevor]

Lloyd could you give us a little more information about why you think this a "great method" for you?

Compared to other methods you have tried, what stood out in this approach that didn't work for you in other methods?

Diz, I've seen a lot wars and flames started over methodology (with the exception of one certain horn ) Rather than dismiss this method, would you explain why you think 'Chicago School' has it's advantages over other's that you have tried for the comebacker? I might add, what you've written is well noted.

[dizforprez]

As I stated before some of the things on the BE website are, in my opinion, not worthwhile for anyone, much less a come back player. I could go line by line of what is said on his web page and point out the parts I disagree with, but to do so would serve little purpose here. Also, I am judging in a general sense, making no distinction between the comeback player and the rest of us, other than the young guys might have more time to practice during the day. SO I would like for each person that reads this to keep that in mind, and take my opinion for what it is worth, given the facts i have stated.

Each person needs to look at it for them selves as well as other “methods” to see what works. The correct way to play is a long road that few undertake; I would speculate that the comeback player would be tempted to look for short cuts (maybe even more so than others), but everyone must stay on track.

Play by sound not by feel…don’t get so rapped up in mechanics...let your teacher do that and assign you exercises and etudes to work things out….just enjoy making good sounds!

[Hornucopia]

dfp, you said something we can definitely agree on:

To often players resort to Methods such as Caruso or BE and follow them with a religious fervor that they lacked in their study of Clarke and Arban’s. They then in turn see progress and think that the past method was flawed, while it was their work that was the problem.

Don't you think in general that if comebackers (or beginners or anyone for that matter) will do the best if they pick an approach and stick with it? Rather than Caruso for a week, BE for a week, then Chicago School sounds cool ... and you end up not being good at any of them because you never really worked the method!

Lloyd, tell us what you like about BE, since dizforprez is clearly not a fan ... I need to hear both side!

[dizforprez]

I would love for you to jump in Lfroberts, one sided debates aren’t much fun!!

Hornucopia,

I like the Chicago school because it is a whole line of thought not simple an exercise you do at the start of the day. On of my pet peeves is seeing someone that has a separate time for each component of trumpet playing, i.e. 10 minutes for “musicianship” or whatever. A “method” should be a whole approach.

Such things as Caruso break down common elements that you should be doing anyway in a manner that doesn’t overwhelm the student, There is nothing wrong with that as long as you move on at some point.

Whatever methods you use stick to it, and have a teacher that has a complete understanding of playing. Those people that change methods every week remind of those people that read magazines for diet and exercises secrets, They buy the magazine read it , give a half assed effort to a half assed program, fail, don’t know why, so they buy the next months edition to figure it out…..come on lets not do the same with trumpet.

Stick to what works.

[LFRoberts5]

Hopefully in the next couple of days I will have a reply.

The reason I don't do it now is I find it hard to convey my thoughts into words. This isn't a copout just a area I need to work on.

One of the things about BE is that it uses scientific fact to help us as trumpet players. Let me explain.

The famous weight lifter/body builder guru Joe Weider has spend his life finding the best ways for muscle development. One of his findings is: Muscles respond better to INDIRECT stimuli.

This means that for example: to learn a golf swing one of the best ways is to watch a pro and "subconsciencely" let your body INDIRECTLY follow what you see and imitate it.

Not learn it by trying to make your body DIRECTLY: " keep your head down, tuck your left elbow in, keep your right arm straight, bend your wrist at the top of your swing, etc,
etc, etc. That is why martial arts studios have mirrors on the walls. So students can watch the teacher and imitate.

This is practiced in BE. Jeff has you practice two opposite exercises, The Roll/In and The Roll/Out. By doing these extreme opposite exercies your body (chops) will INDIRECTLY respond faster and better to achieve a balance that comes across in your playing as: Better Tone, Better Endurance, Better Articulation, Easier Playing, Better Flexibility, Easier Range, and eventually an Expanded Range.

I have my 10 YO son learning the BE Method and the other day after about one month of BE he "hit" a couple G's above high C.

Why not start out and get all the physical aspects of trumpet playing out of the way in the beginning and then you can concentrate on making music and not having to worry about your "chops" or range or endurance all the time.

I hope this helps and makes sense.

[Tootsall]

Makes absolute sense, Lloyd. I've read "The Inner Game of Music" and I also learned to downhill ski using the same principles (but without reading the book). My comments had more to do with respect to the various "flogs" of the different "methods".

I'd like to read more about BE if someone has a good understanding of it.

[Hornucopia]

So what I'm hearing is this:

BE: I need to train my muscles indirectly by doing specific exercises.
Chicago School: listen to and match the sound in my head, let my embouchure take care of itself.
Caruso: Do "the" exercises but follow these Four Rules, and the muscles will train themselves.

I am now officially confused.

[rdt1959]

Hornucopia said:

So what I'm hearing is this:


I am now officially confused.

In my opinion, THAT is why teachers are important! As a comebacker, I don't know much about methods yet, and I am confused about all the different methods too.

My goal for 2004 for to find a good teacher and start on a definite path to improved playing (I have put this off for several months until the house closing/moving/unpacking is done).

For me, it might not be so important which method the teacher uses as much as that the teacher uses ONE method. Given a middle-aged comebackers limit practice time, I think it is important to pick ONE method and stick with it. And I will depend on my teacher to choose the method.

Of course, if I was 20-something with a lot more free time, I might feel different. And face it, during a good week I might have 90 minutes/day practice time. During an average week I usually have about 1 hour/ day. Not NEARLY enough, but for know it's all I can get in. (gotta pay the mortgage ya know). So I just don't have time to work on multiple methods.

[gzent]

If you want to know about BE, then get the book or contact Jeff directly.

I used it and found that it did pretty much what Jeff said it would do. Yes, it is similar to other approaches, but seems more sensible and effective for me.

Greg

[LFRoberts5]

"I used it and found that it did pretty much what Jeff said it would do"


Could you please tell us more?

THANKS!

[Hornucopia]

Good stuff!

Couldn't agree more about the teacher thing, sometimes tricky to work it out as a comebacker ... day job gets in the way of trumpet! Sounds as well like the key is to pick something and stick with it!

Sometimes in life it's not so important WHAT you decide as long as you make a decision!

I think I'm no longer confused, but I want to hear more from you people, and maybe spend a little more time on the BE site to get a feel for what it's all about.