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Post by LFRoberts5 on Oct 21, 2003 19:23:25 GMT -5
What is the best horn to achieve that classic "Bach" sound without actually owning a Mt. Vernon Bach?
Lawler? Eclipse? Taylor? What?
THANKS!
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Post by dizforprez on Oct 21, 2003 19:28:32 GMT -5
hmm how about a Laskey...
i havent played one, but from all the info posted on here that seems to be the closest to the mt veron bach.
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Post by Lawler Bb on Oct 21, 2003 19:35:01 GMT -5
I just posted a reply on TH regarding this topic. I am sure plenty of people will argue with me, but if you want the Bach sound, get a Bach and be done with it. I have tried for 5 or 6 years now to obtain the Bach sound without a Bach trumpet, and it cannot be done, IMHO.
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noel
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by noel on Oct 21, 2003 20:29:29 GMT -5
The "Bach" sound is just the sound you make on a Bach trumpet. Of course the sound I make on a Bach trumpet would be completely different to you, or to any other trumpet player. There is no such thing as the classic bach sound. If you got a great vintage Mount Vernon Bach and had 500 trumpeters play on it they would each make their own totally unique sound. Have you ever played a Mount Vernon? If you do you will find out how you sound on a "classic" Bach. The thing is you might not like the sound. You might not like the way the horn blows. If you have a really clear idea of the sound you want to make - maybe the best sound you can dare to imagine yourself making - then you have a good starting point. Maybe you once heard somebody playing one of those horns and really admired their sound - just remember it's THEIR sound not the horns. By all means try lots of horns out - including some current Bachs and even some vintage horns - there is so much choice it is mind boggling. What I look for in a horn is one which makes it easier for me to sound like myself and to play and shape the music in the way that I like. A horn which suits my playing and doesnt need me to waste energy in imposing my sound upon it - an instrument that works with me rather than against me. I need to be able to make lots of different tone colours, to play with a huge dynamic range over a very wide register and in all styles of music. In order to make this as easy as possible, I tend to go for a trumpet of a medium bore, medium weight, medium sized bell, medium sized lead pipe and a medium shallow mouthpiece with a medium throat and backbore. In other words something very similar to a Bach 37 ML! For what it's worth, these days I am lucky enough to be playing an Eclipse. This horn has the advantage for me in that it has much better intonation, slotting, eveness of blow and core stability (leading to effortless projection) than any other horn I've come across. It also has THE most amazing valves - very short throw and silky smooth - which altogether makes the horn a pretty hot package. All of the above simply make it easier for me to sound like myself - I feel more relaxed and confident because the horn doesnt get in the way. Please dont missunderstand me however. I am NOT saying that the Eclipse has a superior sound to a Bach, or any other horn for that matter. Nor am I suggesting that it must be the horn for you or anybody else. But I will tell you that since I began playing it I've never enjoyed making music so much. Happy hunting (look for the sound within! ). Noel
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Post by romey1 on Oct 21, 2003 20:33:58 GMT -5
I've played lots of Mt. Vernon Bb's that can't touch my early Elkhart ML 37.
Just because it says Mt. Vernon doesn't mean it's an amazing horn.
romey
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Post by Lawler Bb on Oct 21, 2003 20:47:02 GMT -5
Noel,
I can't say that I agree with you. A Bach trumpet makes a Bach sound, and a Yamaha makes a Yamaha sound. My Lawler sounds quite different compared to a Bach. Yes, different players will sound different when playing the same horn, but they will have their version of the Bach sound when playing a Bach and nothing else.
I have played a few Mt. Vernons, and one was excellent in all respects. It had the "classic Bach sound". Now, my regular Bach 37 has the Bach sound too, but not quite the classic Bach sound that the Mt. Vernon or Laskey converted Bachs have. I as well have found that my Elkhart Bach 37 is best for me.
The advice on playing as many horns as you can find is excellent. You may find something that works better for you than a Bach, even in the sound department. It just comes down to what you want to sound like. If you want the Bach sound in your sound, then a Bach trumpet will be in your future. :-)
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noel
New Member
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Post by noel on Oct 21, 2003 20:51:52 GMT -5
Hi Romey, I've just noticed the "strap line" on your post - about how there is a Bach sound. I thought it was funny considering the way I started my post. I hope it's clear that I am not disrespecting Bachs or any other make - I have owned and played my fair share of them and, after all they are based on the horn which set the benchmark for trumpet design - the French Besson. I do wonder exactly what you mean however. Are you really saying that if you and I for instance played the same note on your horn that we would sound exactly the same? Or do you feel that if I played a passage on my own Bach and then on my Eclipse you woud be able to say with 100% confidence which horn was which - in other words you can identify the way a players sound is affected by a Bach trumpet? I am interested in your thoughts, particularly because their still seems to exist amongst the younger or less gifted players in the UK a feeling that they MUST play a Bach in order to fit in. A notion which is simply does not stand up when you look at the wide variety of equipment used by the top players in both the commercial and classical fields over here. All the best. Noel.
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noel
New Member
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Post by noel on Oct 21, 2003 21:04:58 GMT -5
Hi Lawler. Yes I agree with you. All of my trumpets sound different to each other, especially when compared one after another. However the biggest factor in the sound I make is the sound I want to make, or the sound I try to make - the sound in my head - MY sound. And that's the same for all players. What is more, if I stick with one horn for a few weeks, or months, or years the effect of the horn diminishes. I subconsciously adapt my playing to get closer and closer to the essence of my own true sound. Basically whatever horn I play I will end up sounding more or less exactly the same in the end. Maybe that is something that comes with maturity or from having a strong and clear identity to my playing which has developed over some thirty-five years of playing. I know that with the top players in London that I work with I can tell you who is playing just by their sound - no matter what horn they are using (and we do tend to chop and change quite a lot). I think I could probably go out to work with a jupiter or a student yamaha and make a decent sound these days - but it would be really hard work. What I am suggesting is that different horns will suit different players. The trick is to find one which is really easy to play - or one which feels right - then you won't have to work so hard to make your sound and you can concentrate on making music instead. That's where I am at right now. Noel.
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Post by romey1 on Oct 21, 2003 21:11:23 GMT -5
I have a sound concept - it is a combination of qualities I like from my favorite players' sounds, plus ingredients from my own imagination. Adjectives I use to describe my sound are resonant, brilliant, balanced (highs and lows), colorful, flexible, and projecting
My Bach Bb and C trumpets help me realize this sound concept.
Did it take me a while to find Bach horns that I love? yes - was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY!
I am 31, My Bb is my fourth Bach (ML 37 Silver) My C is my fifth!!!!!!! (229H Silver)
I have no idea if we would sound the same, since I don't know if we share the same concept - it does sound like you are at an advanced level however.
I'll stick to my signature: "There is a Bach Sound." The player has to make it however!!!!!!!
It sounds like we are on the "same page."
romey
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Post by Lawler Bb on Oct 21, 2003 21:42:55 GMT -5
Ok, I take it back, it does appear that we are all on the same page.
I just happen to be going for a sound very similar to what Romey described, and Bachs are helping me get there as well.
I thought I should add that I am on Bach Bb #2 and Bach C #2 as of now. :-)
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Post by Nonsense Eliminator on Oct 21, 2003 22:01:27 GMT -5
I think a lot of the argument that arises on topics like this is due to a misapprehension of what is meant by "The Bach Sound".
I think that when most people talk about The Bach Sound, what they are talking about is a certain combination of tendencies which they have only been able to find in Bach trumpets. Obviously, different players have different sounds, but those Bach characteristics will manifest themselves in more or less the same way for more or less everybody.
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Post by Lawler Bb on Oct 22, 2003 0:37:58 GMT -5
Bingo.
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gzent
Junior Member
"6 Sharps? You've got to be kidding!"
Posts: 68
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Post by gzent on Oct 22, 2003 10:07:31 GMT -5
What is the best horn to achieve that classic "Bach" sound without actually owning a Mt. Vernon Bach? Lawler? Eclipse? Taylor? What? THANKS! Lloyd, Here's a stupid question, why not just buy a used, but not abused, Bach Strad, and then have it rebuilt to the Mt Vernon specs? There are reputable shops, such as Dan Oberloh, that are quite capable of doing this. see www.oberloh.com/sales/sales.htmGreg
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Post by Liad Bar-EL on Oct 22, 2003 10:53:05 GMT -5
This thread title sounds like a dance or something. ;D
Lloyd,
Greg made a good point and if I were you, I would follow his advice.
Also, why would you want that BACH sound but not want to own a BACH? Are you wanting other horn qualities that BACH does not have?
I have learned that Schilke made the "S" to sound like a BACH but I don't know how close they've come. I was told that the Kanstul C (forgot the model number and it's not the 1510) was made to sound like a BACH.
In short, if the BACH sound is your priority, then get a BACH.
Liad Bar-EL
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Post by Mikey on Oct 22, 2003 11:45:11 GMT -5
"Baaaacccchhhhhh"
"Bachbachbachbachbachbach".
"Mikey is a chicken"............
(Slow day at work)
;D
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